Legal Sector Resilience
Legal News Wales, with the help of our special guests, explore the tools, insight and processes that can help law firms in Wales become more resilient, competitive and operationally efficient - whatever the climate throws at us. From technology, wellbeing, pricing, compliance, marketing and leadership to recruitment and retention, this podcast covers it all and is ideal for SME legal practices - including barristers chambers.
Legal Sector Resilience
Digital property transactions - opportunities for Conveyancers in Wales
In this episode of the Legal Sector Resilience Podcast, Legal News Wales Editor, Emma Waddingham, is joined by Angela Hesketh, Head of Market Development at PEXA UK, to explore how digital innovation is transforming property transactions across England and Wales.
PEXA UK, the pioneering platform behind the UK’s first fully digital property purchase, recently secured FCA authorisation and is preparing for its full market launch into sale and purchase transactions later this year. Angela shares her perspective as a dual-qualified conveyancer, discusses why this moment represents a pivotal shift for the profession, and explains how PEXA is working with regulators, industry bodies and law firms to create a more efficient, secure and collaborative property ecosystem.
Together, Emma and Angela unpack:
- What PEXA’ UKs platform actually does and why it matters
- The lessons learned from Australia’s digital property transaction journey
- How Welsh conveyancers can engage early and shape the future of digital workflows
- Practical considerations for firms navigating regulatory pressures, client expectations, and operational change
If you want to understand what the next era of conveyancing will look like—and how to prepare your practice—this conversation is essential listening.
🎧 Listen now and discover how you can get involved.
For more information and signposting, visit the insights section on legalnewswales.com and use the 'Legal Sector Resilience Podcast' filter.
Welcome to the Legal Sector Resilience Podcast, a series of one-to-one conversations with the people who are passionate about helping you create strong, relevant and thriving legal practices, led by me, emma Waddingham, editor of Legal News Wales, expect discussions around technology, pricing, people, culture, compliance, leadership, finance and more to help inspire you to confidently invest in the tools and solutions to help elevate, sustain and grow your legal practice. So I'm here today with Angela Hesketh, head of Market Development at PEXA UK, to get a bit of an understanding around where PEXA is at the moment. We've heard a lot from PEXA, probably in the national press, in the conveyancing press, also on social media, which they're fantastic at sharing a lot of industry news, and, of course, at Legal News Wales events, and this recording this podcast is particularly pertinent to those in the property market, and so welcome, angela, it's lovely to see you today.
Angela Hesketh:Oh, brilliant to be here.
Emma Waddingham:Thank you very much for inviting me, and it's a really critical time for PEXA at the moment and we'll come on to that shortly. But I just think it'd be really useful for those who don't know too much about yourself and there's lots, you've got a lot of background in this industry If you'd just like to introduce yourself and tell us what you do at PEXA, but also where you've come from as well.
Angela Hesketh:Yeah, absolutely OK. So my background is I am a dual qualified conveyancer. I've been in conveyancing in and around conveyancing for the last 35 years. 30 years of those were in legal practice all different varieties. I think I've pretty much sat on every seat and done every bit of conveyancing in the peaks and troughs that we have in that industry. So real sort of sensitivity and empathy for everybody in that world and also that's what happened for myself is that I went to use that and then started to build out because I was very concerned and you know I felt that conveyances just had a hard time yeah, they don't get the recognition that they need.
Angela Hesketh:everything seems to not really they're always. They always seem to be classed as the as the bad guy at times, you know, and I just don't. I just didn't like that anyway, and I also felt that all of the systems that were built around them weren't necessarily conveyance of focus. They would be tech focused but not conveyance of focus. So I did more and more work in the wider conveyancing industry.
Angela Hesketh:So, with various different trade associations getting involved in things like the Home Buying and Selling Council, getting involved in things like the Home Buying and Selling Council, looking at how could we get the conveyance's voice within that wider environment, and then look to really try and improve and use some of this technology in the best way for conveyances, something that would actually resonate as opposed to something that felt very detached, and that's what brought me on the journey, really, I suppose. So I stepped out of legal practice about four or five years ago now and went to work within a panel management firm, but my role there was to look at how we could look at the end-to-end process, and we talk about that all the time.
Angela Hesketh:We talk about that all the time in conveyancing. But you know, from a conveyancers perspective, how could we do that when sat within a tech environment? And I did that for a couple of years and we looked at various different ways we could bring in different bits of technology to make a much better journey and how could that look like and how could we present that out to the industry. And we built that via a consultancy model within a law firm to be able to demonstrate that. And then from there I'd done a lot of work with PEXA in and around. I'd seen them many, many years ago when they first launched in Australia and they came over to talk to the Conveyancing Association at the time about what they'd been able to achieve over there.
Angela Hesketh:And then and for me the basis of conveyancing is money and title. There are lots of other aspects to it, but from a conveyancers point of view, they've got to effectively deal with the title, they've got to effectively deal with the money and then they've got to ensure that that title is transferred across. And a lot of the other elements that we talk about day to day, whether it's upfront information, whether it's digitization, all of those things that are all very important they don't actually touch the money and the title very much so for me this was a real game changer. It was this could actually get to the core of what we do day to day. So I got the opportunity to move to PEXA UK. They approached me two years ago. It feels like longer than that.
Emma Waddingham:It
Angela Hesketh:So two year's ago we were looking at how we can bring this information to the conveyancing industry way by taking some of that risk away but also layering it in with what they actually do take today to to complement. Not, you know they, they do convey it's in very, very well. You know they do that very well. But all of those attacks and risks around money and the concentration that much more effectively and efficiently, and how we can ensure that the title is registered well, is lodged with land registry, and the risks around that can be put to one side as well, and that, to me, what PEXA has delivered at its core. And then everything else is is the sort of bells and whistles around it, if you like. From there, brilliant.
Emma Waddingham:And for those who perhaps we've gone in too quickly, but for those who don't know really what PEXA UK is or have a loose understanding. In a nutshell, can you tell us what PEXA UK is?
Angela Hesketh:Yeah, so it's a delivery versus payment model. It's a payment scheme, effectively. So it sits in the bank of england alongside the likes of chaps and faster payments which we're very used to using within conveyancing. But it's a property specific payment system, so it only only activates within property and it has a workspace where the lenders and the law firms access and they basically communicate around the money side. So there's there's a validation of title to make sure that that title is what both the law firm and the lender require, and the land registry ultimately in relation to registration.
Angela Hesketh:So we validate the title at the beginning with the law firms and the lenders. We then deal with the, the orchestration of funds. Okay, so we're moving funds directly within the banking system so it doesn't come out into the solicitor's account. Any funds that are being used from a lender would move directly through the banking system from lender to lender if it's in remortgage or from across the whole ecosystem, depending on who is involved in a chain, for example. And in addition to that, when the funds actually move, all of the title information has been validated and therefore the lodgement to land registry can be automatically placed with land registry, rather than today that being a detached process. Yeah, so that's, that's the essence of it.
Emma Waddingham:It's and I think that's the the most crucial thing to get your head around, really yeah yeah, absolutely, um, and obviously there's a lot of information out there in terms of how um pexa has worked in australia. Um, and and the process is there and and, as I say, it's I, I think you know when we're talking kind of five, six years ago, just pre-covid, around covid time, I know that's a bit of a marker in history, isn't it? That, um, maybe there was some, there was a lack of education around what PEXA is, but in the last four years, and certainly since you've come on board, that education piece to conveyance has been incredibly strong and you're involved in so many different conversations and I think it would be.
Angela Hesketh:I don't know whether you wanted to kind of list some of the organisations that you are in conversation with, because of the role that this will have in in the future yeah, I mean I think there's a recognition, recognition and complete support from PEXA and bringing me into PEXA that we are a part of the system you know and and there are so many other aspects that are coming together and will come together that we both need to understand but support to get the best results ultimately at the end. Homebuying and Selling Council, which is very much focused on the consumer experience of homebuying and selling how can we make that better? How can we ensure that people are fully informed and protect them and support them through that and give them information that's going to help them make the best decision for them? There's also the Open Property Data Association. I sit on the executive board of that and the Open Property Data Association is all about
Angela Hesketh:how can we get to a point where the information that we deal with is digitized across the property ecosystem, and by digitised I don't mean PDFs that are uploaded into your case management system or whatever. This is digital information that can then flow across and be reused if you like, because you know where it came from, so you know who's actually placed that into the property system. You know whether that's a state agent, consumer, local authority, land registry, law firm, whatever it's got that sort of identity around it, so you know where it's come from and you know the level of trust you can place in it. And that then means that we can start to move away from this really fractured situation that we have at the moment, where everybody deals with information and data in a different way. Even how they show your name, your address, anything like that it's all done in a different way. Even how they show your name, your address, anything like that, it's all done in a different way. So every time you try and integrate with a system, you have to reinvent the wheel.
Emma Waddingham:You have to go through that really painful experience.
Angela Hesketh:So how can we lobby governments for what they need to do and how can we get that forward? And within that, we've also we've also developed the property data trust framework, which is this, this set of rules and language, if you like. That is going to clean that up and make sure that we, if we all adopt it and if we are required to adopt it, we can bring that through the whole system. It just takes away all of that duplication of effort, that all of that sort of thing. And then, in addition to that, you've also got the digital property marketing steering group. Now that group is the first time we've been able to bring together all of the regulators - the SRA, CLC and CILEX , together with Land Registry, together with the Law Society, societies of Licensed Conveyances and many more.
Angela Hesketh:Uk Finance are in there, the Building Societies Association there's so many and it's bringing that group together to look at what a digital future could and should look like. And all of those aspects and all of these things are being done with the knowledge of each other as well, because I think there's also this issue isn't there at the moment that there's pockets and there's always been these silos of bits of information going on, but this is about how can we bring that together and actually make some real tangible, usefulsaving change. And I'm not talking about speed of transaction here. I'm talking about what we actually have to do to get the information and how we how we then use that and that's a real education piece in itself, isn't it?
Emma Waddingham:by bringing all those stakeholders together to? You know, there's often conversations around you know we need the other side to understand, we need estate agents to understand what the role of conveyances and vice versa, and consumers and but actually this, this bringing everyone together at that level, must have been quite eye-opening for a lot of parties in itself, and I know there's a lot more to talk about but but than this, but yeah yeah, yeah, and and it just gives it starts to.
Angela Hesketh:Well, I would hope, and the aim is to give confidence across the market that they are all. It is a big thing. It's a huge undertaking and it's going to be difficult because everybody has their own commercial requirements, their own membership requirements, their own regulatory requirements, all of those things. But the willingness to do it and bring it together and be chaired by the MHCLG so it's government chaired yeah, it's, it's. It's a great opportunity for us to actually make some progress there and and concentrate on the on the things and, and the three main things at the moment on that are a digital property information protocol. So let's get a protocol around digital digital identity. Let's let's identify how can we get a digital identity that goes across the piece and then the interoperability piece and trust. If we do all of those things, there's got to be a level of interoperability and trust around it that allows people to be able to to function in that place 100.
Emma Waddingham:Brilliant, thank you. Um, that's really helpful just to see what kind of space PEXA UK is operating in the conversations that you're having. And, as I say, I think they've from from kind of looking outside as an outsider, it's really accelerated in the past few years and and with there's obviously a purpose and there's a plan for the next, particularly the 12 months. As I say, it's a critical milestone this year and I wondered if you wanted to talk about what's happening with PEXA in the UK right now. Where are we and what's coming up?
Angela Hesketh:Yeah, so we have to this point. Peca have been active in the remortgage space because we needed to prove capability, be able to have less parties involved and be able to have that simple process forward, or more simple, I'm not. I'm not detracting from how complicated some remortgages can be. So the next testing point it's a good testing bed.
Angela Hesketh:It's an ideal opportunity for us to be able to show. So we've just hit the first 150 million in transactions that have gone through and that. But the aim, always with PEXA, was to become that payment infrastructure within sale and purchase. That's where we have the real challenge in so many ways. Purchase that's where we have the real challenge in so many ways, um and so to do that, in addition to the lender funds that we've been dealing with in remortgage, we had to look at how we could bring consumer funds in as well.
Angela Hesketh:So we've been going through a, an FCA application for the last. It seems like a long time for a while, but you know it's really important. We understand the level of regulation that we're going to be attributable to, so it's really important that we went through that. So we've just had our FCA license within the last four weeks which is fantastic news and it's obviously that's got to resonate and go through the whole of PEXA to show how all the systems and processes are and all the rest of it, to make sure that we not only have got that license but retain it.
Angela Hesketh:That's the challenge in these positions, isn't it? And then that allows us to move into sale and purchase, which we're looking to launch in the latter part of this year, so, which is fantastic, and that's when we start to really see the benefits of pexa. So, from our perspective, it's the the latter part of this year. It's's all going to be about upping that education even more for where we are, because we're now in a position where we can show what we can deliver with our FCA licence, what that means in relation to security and safety and all of those things, all of that good stuff from a conveyancer perspective, taking some of that pressure, of that pressure off, I suppose, and complementing what they already do in relation to their KYC and source of funds and and being able to then enable them to do that, require them to do that to a certain level, and then for PEXA to ensure that that is what's actually delivered as well. Yeah, so, which is great.
Emma Waddingham:So the recruiting and bringing on of conveyances to the pexa platform is going to be our, our focus really to the latter part of the year, which is is for me, this is where it's all been built into, absolutely, and you know, the reason that I specifically wanted to talk to you on our podcast, obviously about resilience, is that we don't want Wales to miss out on this and, thanks to our new partnership, we'll make sure that everyone in Wales has access any relevant practitioner has access to the news that's coming out, to that recruitment process and to events I know around that to explain, um, you know what, what they kind of need to plan for should they look to do it? Um, because so often, uh, particularly when you start getting pilots or small groups of people, it can so easily always happen in England and and potentially get we get missed out.
Angela Hesketh:so, um, I think you know and have that equity of access to this and to the education piece around it absolutely, and from our side of things, we have been, we've we've always valued what wales could bring. We've had that relationship with yourself. We've also had been attended at various different events and spoken directly to different law firms as well, and we want to continue that, because it's a really important part of what we're doing, and the last thing you want is for that to be ignored or glossed over. No, you've got a really agile workforce potentially in there that is willing and able and listening to what is going to happen and looking at what they can do in that, which is great yeah, and I think you know what's important as well is that we you know this is without agenda for us we want to have that conversation.
Emma Waddingham:There's so many different noises and voices out there and, understandably, it's a huge sector. It's incredibly important. There's lots of experiences there and therefore lots of opinion as well, and so what we're trying, what we're trying to do, is make sure that there's a direct flow into pexa for people to ask those questions, to get that certainty, to get those questions asked, and I would really encourage people to to do that, because you're incredibly accessible and I think that you know, from trade shows to conferences and all sorts. I think that's just a really important point to make. That um, unlike where it could be in terms of the proposition quite a hidden um, you know, an inaccessible brand.
Angela Hesketh:I just don't think that's not where pexa has ever been and I think that's really important to share yeah, and, and it's really it's incredibly important that we address those real questions as well, and I'm always very eager to hear what they are, because we can only, there's so much misinformation that goes around, isn't there, about what things can be, and particularly when it's large organizations that have done something somewhere else, and how's that going to impact on us and we don't want to be done to and all the rest of it and none of that. It's not about that.
Emma Waddingham:it's about how can we add value into what has become an incredibly stressful environment for everybody, and we are on a tipping point, aren't we in the profession where, you know you've got that pressure from the regulator. Um, there is increasing activity around audits for the practices that have conveyancing. Uh, we can see all the news and abundance on the law gazette and other platforms about interventions and, particularly in this area, um, uh, well-being, you know, the retention and of talent and attracting new talent into the profession as well, and I think all of that combined, plus there's so much more. You know there's. We've got huge recruitment pushes in Wales. We've got loads of property, there's a government agenda for homes, there's all sorts of things going on. I think it's just that sweet spot now, isn't it? For, okay, something has to change. It's going to change. We need to get on board and have a voice as part of that process absolutely, I know.
Angela Hesketh:I know what that is, I know what your choices are. You know anything is, it should always be about choices, because if you feel you haven't got any, then that's what that's when it becomes very difficult. But it's understanding what those are and how you can build that into your environment and how the service that you provide can benefit from that from your own perspective. Because the way conveyancing is provided is very different in different companies firms. You know the expectations of their clients, how they get their work. All of those things are very different. Their usps are very different. So it's looking at how you develop the best operation for you, isn't it? And and understanding how that all slots into place.
Emma Waddingham:Really, I'm going. Actually, you know we picked up on on customers, clients a number of times, quite rightly, um, you know the expectations of not just future generations but the current generation as well. You know me, us, we're all buying homes and looking to do that and I think you know how we want to go through that process and the expectation of how that will work, how we interact with our lawyers. There's a lot more consumer awareness than just around cost, although obviously we've had the price transparency as well, although obviously we've had the price transparency as well. Um, so you know, I think it's, it's just, it's being able to to kind of meet all of those pressures, isn't it?
Angela Hesketh:yeah, I mean, there was a recent report I was just um reading this morning which was talking about consumers not being. They're not. They're not as fixed on price as as you would have that people would have you believe. Efficiency and information and and and all of those things are more important and they can start to see the value, and I think that's because they're seeing that in other places. I'm not saying that they're necessarily seeing that just in property, because they are very infrequent consumers.
Angela Hesketh:We know that people don't buy and sell very often, but wouldn't it be great if they did, because they are very infrequent consumers. We know that people don't buy and sell very often, but wouldn't it be great if they did because they felt it was so much easier? Yeah, wouldn't it be great if? If we had a situation where it got back to when I first went into practice, where it was, it was a team game. You know everybody worked together to get that result and I. The reason I went into conveyancing is it was the only area of law I felt was a positive. You're actually doing something good. Most areas of law you're doing, you're there. You're sort of placed on someone because you have to be yeah, whereas in conveyancing they want to, they want to buy the property.
Angela Hesketh:This is great, you know they're not being forced in to use the lawyer for some other reason. It's because they want to buy what is going to be probably their biggest asset, and and that that was a positive for me for so many years. And when I saw that change was when I thought we need to, we need to do something, and there's lots of reasons for that change, and society has changed the way that we do things have. And there's lots of reasons for that change, and society has changed the way that we do things have changed. It's not just one thing, but we need to address all of those and I think we've really got the opportunity to do that now, between digitisation, what PEXA have got to offer in relation to the payment system, the investment in land registry for their digital program, the government's attention on what needs to happen in relation to new homes it's it feels like a perfect story. Yeah, absolutely yeah, and and to be to be part of that and to be in a position where this we could really actually bring ourselves to a point where this is something people want to come and come back into. This is something, you know, both from conveyance's point of view, but also in relation to future focus of of this is. This is a really positive thing, yeah, and and I think I can completely understand on the day-to-day how, how that that feels completely unrealistic at time, but it's there, it's, the potential is there.
Angela Hesketh:I think it's just a matter of how we, how we keep everybody engaged, keep everyone informed. Yeah, let them understand the whys and and the what they could get out of that and then how to adapt your practice, because this, as you said, there's so many other things going on isn't there? You know, we've seen the consultation with with the SRA. There's definitely a question over what's the future of client account, but client account interest as well, and you know whatever happens in that, that is not going to go away. It's going to be something that comes around. So look at what your options are, look at what's happening and how you can protect your business going forward absolutely, absolutely, um, and we going.
Emma Waddingham:You picked up on a point about, you know, bringing people together and sharing that information, and particularly at a localised level. As you know, you've attended one of our forums, so we have conveyancing forums. They've been fantastic on so many levels. So, firstly, for practitioners themselves actually having the chance to meet, eyeball each other, get to know each other away from emails. I've heard on multiple accounts that that's really helped. They've been able to pick up the phone, maybe with a more senior member of staff. They're all heads of departments that have come to the forums. They're closed spaces, they're Chatham House rules. They get a chance to meet people like yourself.
Emma Waddingham:We've had Credison talk about digital identity checking and all sorts of different brands coming and talking about what they're doing and then being able to ask questions and push back and challenge them on some of the. Maybe. If it's the tech piece, why have you created that? Or how can we use that? Or the other person isn't, is it any point? Lots of really difficult questions that actually people are really willing to answer. Um, and we bring in people that we know we can trust um in that space as well. But, but largely they're just for practitioners to get together and talk about to the fat and and relate to the fact they're all going through the same thing, and I think part of that is it's really important to go. Oh, it's not just me, um, I think I think honestly, you know, yeah, the pain is.
Angela Hesketh:The pain is there, spread across everyone? But no, it is that there's. You do you always have that camaraderie around it for for a long time, and we need to make sure that we maintain that it's. It's with. With what's happened since, during and since covid, people have.
Angela Hesketh:There was a risk that people have felt detached. There's a risk that they felt that they're not part of it. They're not supported in the same way, and we need to look again at how we do that in the most effective way in this new environment. We're never gonna. You know, it's not a matter of going back to what we did before. That's not an option and and it's the same for what's happening in the, in the actual process of conveyancing it's not an option to say, well, we'll just go back to what we did before, or these other things didn't work, so this isn't going to work. Well, no, things have moved on. You know, life has moved on and we need to look at yes, we need to we need to ask those really important questions is this a problem that you're at? Is this actually a problem and why?
Emma Waddingham:are you?
Angela Hesketh:trying to solve it and what is it you're trying to solve and all of those things. Yes, we have to have those discussions, but we also have to be very open to sort of listening to what the answer to that is and and thinking about that outside of your day-to-day. What do you expect elsewhere and therefore, what should you expect as a consumer in our environment as well?
Emma Waddingham:exactly, and it's been really. I mean, we've had um a number, you know we've. Obviously we have our legal tech events as well. We had one recently in Swansea and on the panel was a conveyance talking about how they are using AI and a lot of streamlining of their processes using tech, and I think that came from a conversation where people weren't very quiet in the room. I don't think they expected maybe they just thought that they were as far ahead with their developments as every other firm around them in the room and actually no, not not all of them.
Emma Waddingham:Some people kept their heads down, put lots of things in place and and I kind of fit for the next five years and playing around with ai, a very, you know, a huge, a high level um and not to replace lawyers, but to do what you're saying you know, to enable them to do more.
Emma Waddingham:All the conversations that we have around tech there, and I think it's just knowing that sometimes, outside of the conferences and the big shows and events and the big meetings within, maybe, a membership organization, it's good for just people just to get together to the fact on a local level with no agenda, just to see what other people are doing. We're really collaborative in wales as well, which is a very important part of um you know our discussions that people are really honest and open and happy to share and get along um, and I think that's something that will will be fantastic when you come uh back again and talk about what's going to be happening um further on in the year and for people to pick your brains and ask you difficult questions, which I will, and that's okay.
Emma Waddingham:Then you know, I think that's a really important piece for us to be able to offer and, as I say, I highly recommend that people join. We've got an online LinkedIn group that people can join for our conveyancing forum, and then we notify everyone. We have those meetings in person and try and really take them across the country. Um so, so what's? And we will definitely, obviously invite you back, angela, uh, without question. Um so so in terms of like a time frame then for the rest of the year, did you have you got anything to outline that we? We obviously will touch on this in more detail in another podcast.
Angela Hesketh:Yeah, absolutely. I mean our aim now is we are pointing towards September and the last part of September to look at the various different ways that we are going to be approaching conveyances and looking to ensure that we can then go through the onboarding process with them and talk them through what that would look like, how that will go. So that's a big point for us at the moment. We also we've been working with many conveyances anyway through the process to ensure that we're it's not just my opinion. I assure you that there's many different touch points to ensure that what we're it's it's not just my opinion, I assure you that it's. You know, there's many different touch points to ensure that what we're doing resonates.
Angela Hesketh:So really, um, keep your eye on on September is what I'd say at the moment, and we will be providing more information as we go along. And I'd love to, I'd love to come back and and talk to you again about where we're at and things like that. And, as I say, in the meantime, it's about any information that we can bring. I know there's a real risk in this environment at the moment because of the concern around the regulatory side of things and the breaches that we see and all of those things and what's going to happen, and it builds this sort of fear and what we don't want is for that to paralyse the opportunity for growth and future. So it's how we navigate that through between us really isn't it?
Emma Waddingham:Yeah, it really is, and actually that was one of the main things that came out of the last two forums we had. Was that trying to avoid stagnating, and whether it's having a head in the sand around tech or whatever it is, it's that well. Do we plan now or wait till everything comes out in a few?
Angela Hesketh:months time.
Emma Waddingham:What is everything? Because we don't know.
Angela Hesketh:And it moves so quickly, doesn't it? And ultimately, a lot of this is about protecting your own business and your own environment, and that is laudable and always has been, but it's it's the there's. The balance there to have isn't there, and that's that's where talking more and getting more of that information around you enables you to not feel as if you're going from one thing to another without feeling as if there's been a journey in between. It's just keeping that gathering, really, isn't it?
Emma Waddingham:And actually, in a way, it's quite nice to have a marker like this, and for many reasons obviously, as well as the product itself. But to have a marker in time to say this is probably going to be the biggest reshaping perhaps that the sector is undergoing, for the part, in the last decade. So you know. So it's a good point to say okay, how is that? What is our business going to look like? We need to drive something forward here. How can we take advantage of this? And to make sure that we've got the people that we're looking after as well? What can we take advantage of this, um, and and to make sure that we've got the people that we're looking after as well, what can we offer them? Uh, to keep that as a thriving business. It is a really good point in time yeah, and it and it's not.
Angela Hesketh:this isn't going to be a stark sort of it was this yesterday and it's this tomorrow. There's a journey to be had here. Even when, even when we start to go through that hexa journey, it will be something that will grow, so it's ideal to be in an early part and see that, because it enables you then to adapt and develop as you go, rather than feeling as if you're coming in at the back end and feeling as if you're then forced along a route, really, which is not where we want to be. We want to make sure that everybody and everyone will have a different appetite as well, so it's recognising what type of firm they're in, how do they deal with change and how do we manage that in, all of which will be the opportunity to do so.
Emma Waddingham:yeah, exciting times it really is.
Angela Hesketh:I mean it would be great, you know, to get together later on this year and next year and just see where that is. It's just a fantastic opportunity. I know it can feel, you know you can feel uneasy about it, but ultimately things are going to change and we need to be part of that. It's really important that we're a part of it because it conveys to sit at the center of it. So we, we need to be there yeah and and hey.
Emma Waddingham:Lawyers are incredibly entrepreneurial.
Angela Hesketh:They've always been known for being very nimble.
Emma Waddingham:I think. Give, give yourself some credit. You know there is a huge space for this and capacity to change, and we've all seen so much change in our personal and professional lives. You know we're almost it's an expected thing now. It's not a natural human. We don't like change as human beings.
Emma Waddingham:You know there's lots of kind of psychological research around that, and so that is going to be uneasy, but actually, when we come out of it, it would be fantastic to look back and see how far firms have come. And so, yeah, as I say, we'll make sure that everyone in Wales and beyond that listens to this podcast and also is able to come to our events. There's an absolute understanding of what that recruitment process is going to look like, what will be happening in September, how to get on board, how to think about maybe the things that you need to do in your practice to get there if you want to. And we will see you again very soon. I know you're joining us, but we've got our Legal News Wales Awards oh yes, absolutely so coming up, and PEXA has kindly supported our transformation in legal services awards. So it's going to be really exciting and there's lots more to come. So, ange, thank you very much for joining me today and I can't wait to see you again in person.
Emma Waddingham:Thank you, it's been great Thank you for joining us. All our episodes of the Legal Sector Resilience Podcast are available on legalnewswales. com, with further signposting or on all good podcasting apps.
